Poll  

78 members have voted

  1. 1. Should this position be implemented?

    • Yes
      58
    • No
      16
    • I have criticism (please post it in this thread)
      4


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3 minutes ago, Lalatte said:

Can you remind us when we last had this please

I believe it ended around 2017? There was hardly any significant change when the implementation ceased. They functioned, behaved, and we regarded as staff members and only staff members. We seem to have forgotten that. There is no true bridge and there never will be one. Let's think back to before Lilu was a GM, ok? He was a "gamesage". A gamesage was supposed to be what has been described by this thread to a T. In practice, a gamesage is not our ideal bridge. That has been proven by their implementation. 

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1 minute ago, Hail said:

I believe it ended around 2017? There was hardly any significant change when the implementation ceased. They functioned, behaved, and we regarded as staff members and only staff members. We seem to have forgotten that. There is no true bridge and there never will be one. 

Who were they though? And who chose them?

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1 minute ago, Lalatte said:

Who were they though? And who chose them?

Staff chose them. Off the top of my head I remember Arc, Annovie, Lilu, Sera, Triv, and Poppy(?). They were regarded as staff members primarily and those who remained got promoted to higher staff positions. 

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1 minute ago, Hail said:

Staff chose them. Off the top of my head I remember Arc, Annovie, Lilu, Sera, Triv, and Poppy(?). They were regarded as staff members primarily and those who remained got promoted to higher staff positions. 

I don't think they were added on as community reps though

Annovie was literally a nobody that had 150 posts

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Just now, Lalatte said:

I don't think they were added on as community reps though

Annovie was literally a nobody that had 150 posts

They were described as "the bridge between players and staff". Community representation was supposedly their primary function, unless everyone was lying. They were not meant to be mods until later on when there was a demand for faster, more effective removal of hackers. 

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2 minutes ago, Hail said:

They were described as "the bridge between players and staff". Community representation was supposedly their primary function, unless everyone was lying. They were not meant to be mods until later on when there was a demand for faster, more effective removal of hackers. 

Tbh this is something new though.... we want to elect them and then not have them be changed into staff memebers

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Just now, Lalatte said:

Tbh this is something new though.... we want to elect them and then not have them be changed into staff memebers

Then you need to do it without being sanctioned by staff and petition for staff to acknowledge the person or persons who were elected by the community independently from staff influence. If staff then approves of these people, they would need to have enough trust in them to disclose information. Information is almost exclusively controlled by staff... Don't you think that our reps would wind up becoming something very... similar to gamesages if not identical? 

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1 minute ago, Hail said:

Then you need to do it without being sanctioned by staff and petition for staff to acknowledge the person or persons who were elected by the community independently from staff influence. If staff then approves of these people, they would need to have enough trust in them to disclose information. Information is almost exclusively controlled by staff... Don't you think that our reps would wind up becoming something very... similar to gamesages if not identical? 

Oops, by staff members I meant mods/GS

I think they should be made into a separate role, Community Reps.

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Just now, Lalatte said:

Oops, by staff members I meant mods/GS

I think they should be made into a separate role, Community Reps.

Even without the gamesage label, I strongly believe that they would maintain the gamesage functions and expectations. This thread in essence sounds like it is asking to bring back gamesages but make the gamesages significantly more playerbase-oriented so they aren't just staff members like the former ones. 

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11 minutes ago, Hail said:

Even without the gamesage label, I strongly believe that they would maintain the gamesage functions and expectations. This thread in essence sounds like it is asking to bring back gamesages but make the gamesages significantly more playerbase-oriented so they aren't just staff members like the former ones. 

Why give CRs GS powers and responsibilities? 

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7 minutes ago, Lalatte said:

Why give CRs GS powers and responsibilities? 

Why did GSes have powers and responsibilities to begin with? In the event that the CRs have no responsibilities whatsoever, who are they supposed to answer to? I don't want them to have power, but if they're going to be given a platform at all, they need to be held responsible to something or someone. The favored entity would be the average members of the community, but how likely would that be the case?

Let me elaborate though. Remember that my notion is that they'll wind up being identical to the gamesages. In the event that they are more staff than they are player, they inevitably will have some degree of power.

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Just now, Hail said:

Why did GSes have powers and responsibilities to begin with? In the event that the CRs have no responsibilities whatsoever, who are they supposed to answer to? I don't want them to have power, but if they're going to be given a platform at all, they need to be held responsible to something or someone. The favored entity would be the average members of the community, but how likely would that be the case?

Their responsibilities is to share the communities concerns with the staff and to better connect us. If they don't end up doing that, they're not doing their job right

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1 minute ago, Lalatte said:

Their responsibilities is to share the communities concerns with the staff and to better connect us. If they don't end up doing that, they're not doing their job right

And who will determine if they're not doing their job right? And who will determine what else they may wind up being responsible for? Who is their boss, Lalatte?

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1 hour ago, Hail said:

And who will determine if they're not doing their job right? And who will determine what else they may wind up being responsible for? Who is their boss, Lalatte?

GS and higher, as well as the community 

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10 minutes ago, Lalatte said:

GS and higher, as well as the community 

... And... what if there is conflicting interest between these two totally different bosses? 

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18 minutes ago, Lalatte said:

Such as what

Rep only makes ran happy but totally displeases the community. 

Rep totally favors community and Ran doesn't appreciate him. 

Rep would rather meme in some guild than actually do her job at all. 

Those are just three examples. 

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6 minutes ago, Hail said:

Rep only makes ran happy but totally displeases the community. There has to be a balance... the rep isn't there to do what Ran says, they're there to help connect us

Rep totally favors community and Ran doesn't appreciate him.  There has to be a balance... the rep isn't there to do what Ran says, they're there to help connect us

Rep would rather meme in some guild than actually do her job at all. Then we should fire them?

Those are just three examples. 

 

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Just now, Activear said:

and why is that?

would you trust a youtube comment section to vote for the next president?

or trust elementary school kids to vote for their school faculty?

its possible that they vote for a competent representative, but its equally possible, maybe more, that they vote for a complete blithering fool

i dont trust the judgment of this community in any way, shape, or form.

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4 hours ago, Activear said:

and why is that?

a 100% democratic vote is just kinda silly here. the server. A lot of ppl who play are grade/high-schoolers which is the prime age to start forming echo chambers and you generally just cant trust minors to have good discernment. they can also be disingenuous, which is pretty easy to do online

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13 hours ago, Sera said:

would you trust a youtube comment section to vote for the next president?

or trust elementary school kids to vote for their school faculty?

its possible that they vote for a competent representative, but its equally possible, maybe more, that they vote for a complete blithering fool

i dont trust the judgment of this community in any way, shape, or form.

we're not voting for someone like Ran, nor are we 9 year olds

and i don't get why you think some random is literally going to pop out of nowhere and literally everyone is going to vote for them? 

9 hours ago, stabocrabo said:

a 100% democratic vote is just kinda silly here. the server. A lot of ppl who play are grade/high-schoolers which is the prime age to start forming echo chambers and you generally just cant trust minors to have good discernment. they can also be disingenuous, which is pretty easy to do online

someone had an idea that we vote in 3 then Ran chooses, that sounds fair doesnt it

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-1

This would most likely end up being a waste time. If the staff would spend just a few minutes per day here in the forums they would know what they community wants/thinks. Heck, they could even start threads themeselves asking for feedback for whatever topic they're interested in.

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What you guys are asking for are Gamesages to a T, like Hail said. The only difference is the source of the people.

And the Gamesages were depreciated. This should literally speak miles on how likely this is to succeed. Even less so because you guys keep going on about balance.

The Gamesages were meant to be that balance. Their entire reason for being was to inform the staff about how the community felt on certain things. That didn't stop them from utterly disregarding them and the reason they were hired and doing it anyways and likewise also not doing what the community felt would help, usually for the exact same reasons.

Being privvy to inside info means they can't tell us, destroying that bridge. The staff seem fully content to blow up the community connection bridge themselves when they feel the need as well.

With how Void treats it's insider info, there is no world where we can have a successful bridge. The 2.5 thing CM put up not too long ago so far is the only act of this kind that wasn't forced by the community.

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